Darcy (0:00)

We acknowledge the lives lost to suicide and recognise those who have survived suicide attempts. And those who struggle today or in the past with thoughts of suicide, mental health issues and crisis situations. We acknowledge all those who have felt the deep impact of suicide, including those who love, care and support people experiencing suicidality and those experiencing the pain and bereavement through suicide. We respect collaboration with people who have a lived or living experience of suicide and mental health issues and value their contribution to the work we do.

Paul (0:33)

I can't let them. If I go, then they’ve won. I've got to be stronger. I've got to fight for me, but also going forward. And that was part of my personal growth.

Darcy (0:44) 

Welcome to Holding on to Hope, the series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration, at times, you may hear something you find triggering. If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, Text 0477 1311 14 or visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Ruben (1:22)

Welcome to Holding on to Hope. On today's episode, we are joined by Paul. Paul is a resilient soul who embarked on a profound transformation after four decades of living behind a facade of existences. Around 14 years ago, Paul's world collapsed, becoming the genesis of an ongoing journey of personal evolution. Despite battling a myriad of mental health and physical disabilities, including surviving a heart attack, and grappling with recurring cardio issues, stroke, multiple bouts of cancer, functional neurological disorder, and numerous other health conditions. Paul's determination to embrace life's trials and tribulations remains unyielding.

Ruben (2:04)

Hi Paul, thank you so much for joining me.

Paul (2:06)

Thank you for having me on today.

Ruben (2:10)

I'd like to invite you to share whatever you're comfortable in doing so about your journey. 

Paul (2:13)

So much of my life has been spent around needing, wanting to be understood. Firstly, by myself, and secondly by others out there. And that's the two sides to the stigma, the shame, that guilt, discrimination that has always followed me like a dark cloud. And yeah, that's just part of our ongoing battles was by many mental illnesses and physical health disabilities. I had an early childhood, which was ideal, living in the city. Then the bush, I was sent to boarding school, where I endured three years of intense childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse. From there, I sort of moved into self denial for 30 to 40-odd years before I became the victim, before I became the survivor, and before I became the thriver. I was married for 23 years, which left me the richest man in the world because I have four amazing sons who are my rock and foundation. A life that has given me incredible memories. I was living in self-denial, I was living behind a facade. To the point where around 2008, my mental and physical wellbeing basically collapsed. My marriage has gone, I endured extreme loneliness that followed multiple suicide attempts, [I was] in and out of mental health wards. I was previously addicted to hard drugs, and excessive use of alcohol, ridiculous, risky behaviour, which I now understand was just a consequence of my borderline personality, bipolar, dissociative identity disorder, and major depressive disorder and all those things.

In 2008, went from the penthouse to the outhouse where I was literally living on the streets of Brisbane. While I was battling with a heart attack. I had a stroke about 10 years ago. I still have an aneurysm, I still have cardio problems. I endured cancer four times, three different types of cancer, perforated bowel, lost, most of my bowel. I died twice on the operating table, and that put me in a medically induced coma. And I could go on and on with all the physical attributes. So it's a life that is incredibly rich, incredibly full, incredibly complex, but I've somehow managed to stay here.

Ruben (4:19)

What were the pivotal moments that made you realise the need for change?

Paul (4:23)

Probably around about 2008, when my life was beginning to crumble on all fronts. I was living on the streets was when I actually had to acknowledge my past. That I was a victim of horrendous and ongoing sexual, physical and emotional abuse. I'd reached a point where I could no longer outrun the demons in my revision mirror. So it was fine for me to sort of stop and say, ‘Enough is enough.’

It was a huge moment. I’d endured about six to eight suicide attempts. I was in and out of mental wards, [electric] shock treatment, which led to, I believe, the stroke that I had and now suffering with epilepsy and functional neurological disorder because of the damage that it did. That allowed me to really focus and say, ‘I don't want to be here. Why? Because I don't really feel I belong anymore.’ It was probably around about my 12 suicide attempt, where I've been going through a process of reflection and just questioning who I am. I so often say, ‘Will the real Paul, please stand up.’ Because I had no idea who he was. I was just starting to take on board who these different personalities were. The more I researched about childhood abuse, I then started to look at that complex trauma. And I started to learn about the mental illnesses that flow from that, and then the associated physical health complaints that one gets. But it wasn't until probably about 2015, it was my 12th suicide attempt and I woke up in the mental health ward had Bundaberg base, and looked around the room and went, ‘Damn, I'm silly.’ If it wasn't my time to go, then I needed to find a reason for being here. A purpose. It was important to me, and not just simply appeasing others. Unfortunately, I'd been doing that all of my life.

Ruben (5:59)

Throughout your journey, what skills or coping mechanisms did you develop that significantly aided your progress?

Paul (6:05)

One of the mental health support workers introduced me to a company in Bundaberg. It was an employment agency. I worked with a wonderful person called Jo there, who believed in me. She saw something in me that I couldn't see. She encouraged me to run a couple of workshops that they had for long-term unemployed, disengaged youth and people with disabilities. I wrote and developed another 12 different workshops on soft and hard skills, understanding your personality, understanding what self-esteem, self-confidence is, volunteered, gave my time to helping other people. That's when it also dawned on me as I've met this incredible commercial acumen of having spent so many years in senior executive roles in the IT and telco world. The feedback I was getting from people was, ‘I gotta thank you, Paul, I've got more out of your three-hour workshop than I got out of three years of working with a psychologist.’ And I went, ‘Wow, that's pretty outlandish statement.’ That's when it really dawned on me, that was one of the key pivotal moments where I said, ‘Okay, this is obviously my purpose. It’s to help other people.’ And I can do that in two ways. I can do it on a one-to-one, or I can do it as part of committees out there. That set me on my path of self-discovery. It was also very cathartic. For me as well. It was part of my ability to re-evaluate myself. To reinforce what I was doing while I was doing some of the skills, the coping mechanisms, I have what I call my ‘oh shit box,’ when I'm struggling out there I have this big box, which has a little bucket of sand, and it was some shells, etc. So I use the six senses that we have. So the bucket of sand, I can put my hand in there. And I can feel like I'm back at the beach, I can play with the shell. So the feeling, the sensation, the smell. I have a bag of musk sticks. So again, the smell, the taste, the feel, it takes me back to my childhood. A couple of favourite CDs in there that just bring me to tears, but bring me joy. Little plants of lavender and a few things like that. So use the six senses to just distract, stop the negative thoughts, stop the blackness, the darkness, the clouds, which allows me to move forward.

Ruben (8:15)

How did you overcome the fear or uncertainty that often accompanies taking the first step towards personal growth and healing?

Paul (8:22)

One of the dominant themes that kept me going, to overcome that fear and that uncertainty was, don't let the bastards win. So when I say that, I mean, the Christian brothers that had taken away my childhood and had ruled my childhood were also were ruling my older life, as I moved in to manhood. So, it was about saying, ‘You've ruled, and you've ruined my life, to this point.’ I'm not going to let the bastards win anymore. So that was one of the little mantras that I used to just which I still do when I get into dark places was, I can't let me - if I go then they’ve won. I've got to be stronger. I've got to fight for me, but also going forward. And that was part of my personal growth. The healing side of it, what I tend to focus on more as my own personal growth, through the transformation, how I'm transforming myself. How I'm trying to trying to identify who the real Paul is, so that he can stand up to be strong. For me, that's important that that's part of my journey. It's part of me being real, and not just succumbing. It's not just appeasing to what society says. Part of it was just to accept what had happened. It's part of that reflective process as a part of that awareness process. It's part of that acknowledgment. And so I had to accept it. And it was a difficult thing to say those words. If we were having this conversation four or five years ago for me to say that I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I'd be in tears. I would just be an absolute mess. Because it was so raw. It was so rich. It was so ugly for me to comprehend, but I had to put a sunset clause on it. When you face your demons, you need to be the victim, you need to grieve, you need to cry, you need to be in pain. But you also need to say, ‘I now need to move forward.

Darcy (10:07)

We hope you're enjoying this episode. Lifeline’s new Support Toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones, and look after yourself along the way, visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now, back to the episode.

Ruben (10:25)

Were there any obstacles or setbacks you encountered whilst trying to maintain these habits? And how did you overcome them?

Paul (10:32)

Quite a few in all sorts of different formats. The justice system. In my darkest days, going through the divorce proceedings. Yeah, the marriage breakup, the impact it had on the relationship with my kids, the Supreme Court action I had against the Catholic Church. There was and still really isn't a great deal of support in place for males. But what I would say generally speaking, for anyone out there, that really made it hard. So for me, it was about, again, having to educate myself. To find the strength to reach out to people, which is not easy to do, when you've been so self-reliant, and so hidden behind your facade for so long. That you need to, again, that safe person to be able to reach out and say, ‘Look, I'm struggling there.’ Part of it is making yourself aware of what services are out there. What have I done? Well, I've got involved to raise these things to bring the awareness, trying to educate these departments and the government to say you need to take that holistic approach to prevent further problems. Whether it's mental, whether it's physical.

The NDIS has been an absolute lifesaver for me, it's allowed me to do the things that I can do. NDIS supports me so I can support other people. So I can be on this committees, so I can hopefully bring about sustainable change out there. So for me, it's a big thing. I've spent so much time sitting on the sidelines, getting angry, frustrated, hiding. That again, part of the positive self-talk was that it was time to get in the game. I needed to get into the game to bring about these changes to us all that lived and living experience.

When we talk about challenges and what we do, yeah, the point is not and never will be to stop the pain, to stop this, to stop that. And that's like trying to say you got to change, you got to stop the ocean tides. The point is, I need to learn to swim, I need to learn a better way to swim. And so that's what I've tried to do was say, ‘How do I adapt who I am, and the skills I've got.’ Looking at the different personalities and the key strengths, rather than looking at the negative aspects of all those different personalities. Garnering all of the strengths of each of those, so that I do have the strength to do what I'm doing now.

Ruben (12:35)

What advice would you offer to individuals or communities seeking to break the stigma and foster open discussions on these critical issues?

Paul (12:43)

Suicide, its prevention, and all the others associated factors that sit around it is not solely the responsibility of that individual. Yes, they own it, but if we've learned anything, we can't do it alone. So, from a community perspective, we all need to be responsible. We all need to be accountable, and we all need to have skin in the game. And by that, I mean we need to lots of campaigns out there. Are R U OK day, which is great. Yeah, we all do that for that one day, but we need to be doing that every day. We need to turn on the radar, in our own heads and be a little bit more observant, be a little bit more aware. Listen, but really listen to what's being said, more importantly, listen to what's not being said in normal conversations that we have. And it's not about laying blame. But people do go through that grieving process. It's about saying, ‘Okay, so what do we change, we change how we interact with each other.’ Life has become so busy and so cold in a lot of ways that we're all so busy just trying to keep our heads above the poverty line. But we need to just really keep our eyes open, listen to what people say, and watch for changes. Helping one person may not change the world, but it may actually change the world of that person. So it's really important that we do those things. Think about how you speak and how you act. How would you feel if someone said or did that to you? I’d feel bloody terrible, okay, so why is it okay for you to do that to someone else? So getting us to think about and then taking that one step further. I'm saying, ‘Okay, if you wouldn’t like someone doing that to you, so you really don't want to do that to someone else? Then why is it okay to do it to yourself?’ So really getting into that negative self-talk. So, that that's a little longer process to get there, but communities just the way we interact with people, for individuals safe place, safe person. Research, acknowledge, confront yourself, have those hard conversations with yourself earlier, so that you don’t, not waste, but don’t lose as much time as we have.

Ruben (14:41)

Are there any specific support systems or resources you would recommend to others facing similar challenges?

Paul (14:47)

Everyone's journey is around journey. So it's going to be individual. I can only speak for myself but the generic one is as I keep saying it, but it's just so important: safe place, safe person. We've got to have that. Remember that they need to be non-judgmental, that someone's going to listen to you and not give advice. Look for your local community groups where males can go and talk. But look for community groups where any gender can go along to and just feel safe and be able to talk. And most communities have a suicide prevention group, get involved with that. It's amazing how cathartic it can be. That you can talk and work with fellow members of your community to raise awareness, education, fight for better resources, you're doing something for other people, but you're also doing something for yourself. Because you're confronting your demons, you're battling your demons and saying, ‘I'm not gonna let the bastards win, I'm going to be stronger.’ I'm going to whatever that conversation is, there's some simple things. There's something that I developed when I was living on the streets, and I call it my model of contentment, and also my dashboard. So I was contemplating, why am I here? What's the purpose, blah, blah. So I have the six pillars of contentment: mental state, my emotional state, physical, state, social, state, spiritual state, and financial state, the model looks like a stock exchange when I use it, but also in my head when I look at it with the levels of each of those. And when I reflected back to you, when I was at my darkest moment, and ready to end, to take my life, I was bankrupt across all of those. I had nothing left, but then started to explain and explore what they meant for me. That's been a very useful tool. For me, it's retraining the brain, but it's also reinforcing why you're here. It's also helping you figure out where you're at, why you're at, looking for those danger signs. They're just some of the things that I've used over time to try and keep myself here, keep myself focused on my purpose, keep myself strong enough that I can not only just talk for myself, but talk for others that don't have the capacity, don't have the strength to do that.

Ruben (16:49)

Is there anything else you would like to add as a part of this podcast?

Paul (16:54)

Really just for people to focus on one step at a time, one day at a time. When we're confronted with whatever is an ugly event in our lives, it will be and feel totally overwhelming to us. Just take a breath, step back. One step. You can’t eat an elephant in one bite, take lots of little bites. It's about getting that self awareness, it’s about controlling that self-talk. But just remember that one step at a time, one day at a time. Remember, it's okay not to be okay. We’ve got to stop beating ourselves up. I'm not the best father, I'm not the best provider, I'm out of work. I've got a drinking problem. I've got a gambling problem. I've got this, I've got that. That's okay, to acknowledge what's happening. Nothing's ever gonna change. It's okay not to be okay. But that sunset clause comes in, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to try and outrun the demons in your rear vision mirror? You can't at some point, they will come calling. So it's okay not to okay. But as long as you are prepared to confront it and reach out, find that safe person that safe place and just be kind yourself. We're not perfect. None of us are.

Ruben (18:01)

Thank you so much, Paul, for sharing your story and being part of the Holding on to Hope podcast. I really appreciate it and look forward to seeing what's in store for you next.

Paul (18:09)

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Darcy (18:12)

Thanks for listening to Holding on to Hope the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding on to Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously. In order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you don't have to struggle, visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au. today.