Darcy: We acknowledge the lives lost to suicide and recognize those who have survived suicide attempts and those who struggle today or in the past with thoughts of suicide, mental health issues and crisis situations. We acknowledge all those who have felt the deep impact of suicide, including those who love care and support people experiencing suicidality and those experiencing the pain and bereavement through suicide. We respect collaboration with people who have a lived or living experience of suicide and mental health issues and value their contribution to the work we do.
Will: I love and care for somebody who's having those thoughts. I know that they love and care for me, the people around you like your friends and your family. They want to help you they're there to listen to you.
Darcy: Welcome to holding on to hope, a series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support whilst all of the stories shared of hope and inspiration. At times you may hear something you find triggering, if you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone lifeline on 13 11 14, Text 0477 13 11 14 or visit lifeline.org.au for lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.
Ruben: Welcome to holding on to hope I'm your host Ruben Mackella. Today we are joined by will a 29-year-old electrician growing up in Eltham Utley, our Northeast of Melbourne will have a fairly standard childhood. However, beneath the surface normalcy layer profound struggle that began at a young age, and just five years old, Will's life was touched by tragedy when his cousin took his own life. This event coupled with a lack of positive emotional role models in his life, led well down a path with thoughts of suicide became familiar, almost normalized responses to emotional distress. In this conversation, we'll shares about reaching out to lifeline during moments of despair, the challenges of navigating relationships, and the stigma surrounding men's mental health. Join us as we delve into Will's journey of resilience, self discovery, and the ongoing pursuit but mental well being in a world where seeking help is a sign of strength. I will thank you so much for joining us today. Your awareness of suicide started at a very young age with the loss of your cousin, can you tell us about this time and how began to normalize the idea of suicide for you?
Will: My awareness of suicide started when I was five years old, my cousin, he took his own life, I don't really have any particular memories, except for two that stand out. One was my father being particularly upset when he we found out that the news, and also my Auntie's and relatives being visibly sick at the funeral, considering adding an open casket. You know, suicide isn't something that is normalized for a five-year-old, it's definitely not something that maybe they can really grasp. But my recall the details being shared with me at the time, instead of it being shared as just, you know, someone has passed away, the details are shared with me. And I think that's really when it's stuck. And I got the idea that when things become overwhelming in life, whatever it might be, that that's an option, that as a five-year-old, that's not really something that's normal, I suppose in a five year olds life, really, I remember almost immediately finding out that it was suicide, and that he passed away in that way. I think I rationalized in my own head, I don't think there was a particular conversation that where it was explained to me the idea of what suicide is, I know he had served time in the Australian Defence Force. And I think I just started to make those conclusions myself at age five, that maybe things got a bit too hard. And that's why he did what he did. But I don't recall a particular conversation, explaining what suicide meant, I came to those conclusions myself.
Ruben: Can you paint a picture of what was going on in your world when you first became aware of your suicidal thoughts and feelings?
Will: Two things come to mind. Really, I think it's a bit retrospective. At the time, it was so normalized that the idea that, you know, things become too challenging in somebody's world, that suicide is an option, I think, because it was so normalized at the time. It didn't occur to me in the moment that I was having those thoughts myself. I think it's really a retrospective thing that I can think back now and realize that that was somebody that I carried with me and have carried with me my whole life, the first occasion where it stood out to me that those thoughts of suicide weren't something that most people thought about, was when I was 18. So a long time after I first heard of the idea, I remember being overwhelmed or distressed by something, and telling my girlfriend at the time that I felt like killing myself, but obviously she was quite upset by that by hearing a boyfriend say that, you know, I feel are a bit odd that she had such a reaction because to me it was it was something just so normal.
Ruben: What it was like for you having those thoughts and feelings at the time?
Will: It was kind of my default thoughts of suicide, I played basketball when I was I was a kid, if I didn't perform well in a good match, that would be my first thought that shouldn't be here anymore. Any sadness, feeling stressed or overwhelmed with school, that was the default that I wasn't good enough. And that I didn't need to be here anymore. There's no point of being here anymore, retrospectively now thinking everything was just kind of dull, really, I didn't feel emotions fully. Everything was just kind of dull. And that was always there in the background.
Ruben: Could you share how these feelings of suicidality affected your relationships, work or other aspects of your everyday routine?
Will: What I've alluded to so far is that a lot of my interpretation of bit always hindsight, because at the time, it was so normal to me, I don't think I realized what the effects were. But thinking back now, being so subdued, I think, in my emotional experience, impacted every aspect of my life, really, to the point where I would kind of give up with things soon as I felt like I wasn't good enough, it wasn't performing. And those thoughts of suicide took over, I kind of shut down, obviously, being emotionally available to partners that disappeared, because I was kind of just trapped in my own thoughts at work, it did get to the point that I just didn't want to go to work, you know, call seek ease and things because I just couldn't cope with the idea of being at work, or I couldn't concentrate, because the thoughts of suicide was so overwhelming. Like I said it. You know, that's all, all hindsight. And now that I've been able to take a bit more control of my mental health and mental well being.
Ruben: Did you feel at the time, you had good avenues to open up about your suicidal thoughts or suicidality?
Will: I don't think I felt at the time that I had anyone to turn to or anywhere to go. I certainly felt the stigma associated with men portraying you know, a tough exterior, because just starting at age 20, now just starting to get in the construction industry. And I think that adds an additional element of bravado, or where men have to have a tough exterior. And I think I was trying to maybe put that on a little bit, only my own pressure. But that certainly added two things that I didn't feel like I had anywhere to go. I think seeing my first girlfriend's emotional reaction kind of made me realize that she obviously didn't care about me, but I don't think I want it was something that I really wanted to talk about.
Ruben: What point did you realize that you needed support for your suicidal thoughts and feelings?
Will: And age 21 was when things started to get a bit more overwhelming as far as my suicidal thoughts are concerned? Yeah, I mean, it was really the first time that I called lifeline that I realize that something was happening that was beyond my control. Prior to that age, I felt like it was normal. And it was just something that just happened. I didn't feel like it had too much of an impact on my life, age 21. And I was moving into the construction industry. That's why I guess the pressures of you know, becoming an adult and getting into the professional workforce became a little bit too overwhelming, I suppose I would leave my desk and go to the bathroom and just sit there because I couldn't cope with what was happening in my head when I completely broke down in the kitchen, at home, working in a remote town at the time, and there was nobody there with me. My emotions completely got the better of me and completely overwhelming. I felt stunned. I couldn't do anything. And that's where that's where there was the first time that I caught lifeline because I felt like they were the only person that would maybe understand or listen, I didn't feel like there was anybody else that I could turn to.
Ruben: Can you tell us a bit about what led you to call lifeline both times? And what was your experience like?
Will: I was working Catherine, which is remote part of the Northern Territory on a construction project there. And I was living with one of my colleagues in a sort of work provided chair house, I suppose he'd gone home for the weekend. And so I was there by myself. And I remember washing the dishes and feeling so hopeless. And I remember crying, uncontrollably crying, and it was probably something that I didn't do particularly often. So it stood out to me as being a bit unusual. Yeah, I remember having just thoughts of what would my mother What would she think of me? If she was a fly on the wall? What would you think of her son feeling hopeless? And yeah, that really set me off. I think as far as just not being able to control my emotions. I called lifeline certainly calm things down and and that was kind of really the first experience the second experience. I was prompted to call lifeline via girlfriend at the time she encouraged me to do so I think because she also felt quite overwhelmed by the situation. Yeah, I remember that comment. Question also bringing obviously comfort to my girlfriend at the time because I was becoming a bit more relaxed, and that made her feel more relaxed. So it was a really positive experience.
Darcy: We hope you're enjoying this episode, lifelines new support toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones, and look after yourself along the way, visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now, back to the episode.
Ruben: What would you say was your biggest hurdle or challenge in taking that critical first step towards getting help?
Will: It's hard to say what the biggest one was. But the two that come to mind, one is the stigma. Like I mentioned, working in the construction industry, we all think that we're invincible and, and that we need to be invincible. And so I definitely felt the pressure that I shouldn't reach out for help if I need it. And the other hurdle was obviously not feeling like I had somebody to talk to I didn't feel like you know, those particular friend to lean on or a family member. Those were the two biggest hurdles that that I found in reaching out.
Ruben: How did you go about finding the support you needed when dealing with suicidality? What resources or methods were most beneficial for you?
Will: Well, the first resource was to go on to a psychologist that was prompted through the same girlfriend that I had, at the time when we shared a lifeline call, I suppose you could say she felt like she couldn't be the solution. I felt like that's not her responsibility, either. She said, You need to go and see somebody, or I went to the GP and got a referral for for a psychologist. And that was probably the most impactful resource that I've had in my mental health journey, mainly because I think it was really my emotional education, which, you know, started when I was 2526 years old. It was almost like relearning. What does this mean? What does happiness mean? What does sadness what does that look like? What does that feel like? I can learn to identify the emotions and in that way that it becomes overwhelming?
Ruben: Did you feel that you could be opened with work about what you are going through? It was still very much your own journey. How was that?
Will: I still felt like it was a very taboo topic. At the time, I was really embarrassed actually to go and see a psychologist, I remember, I would purposely pick the latest appointment that she had, so that it was dark. At the time for the main reason that I didn't want to be seen walking into the psychologist clinic. I remember parking my car blocks away and walking for the same reason I didn't want my car to be seen in front of the psychologists office construction site was fairly big that I was working on. So I was kind of mortified by the idea of people seeing what was going on, on what they saw at work. I don't think I really disclosed any of that. Until a few years later to an employer anyway, yeah.
Ruben: What specific actions did you implement? Or even habits did you develop to cope with suicidal thoughts or emotions?
Will: I remember the first kind of strategy that my psychologists asked me to implement was setting a timer on my watch, for every hour to stop for 30 seconds and take, take deep breaths. That was the first thing I was kind of a bit sceptical at first, I'd never done breathing exercises or meditation of any kind certainly helped. You know, I was in the middle of a day, at the time, I was running a small crew on the construction site. It helps us for stress management, I could see the immediate effects of helping me at that exact moment where I took a 32nd break and did some deep breathing. And I slowly started to see the benefits from a broader sense, in that putting out spot fires, I suppose at the time, that would help in a broader sense. These days, it's almost moments of kind of old man contemplation that really help with my mental health. I like to reflect on how my days go, or really reflect on my behavior and with a particular stimulus. I'd like to reflect after the moment and think well, why did I behave that way? Or why did that impact me in a certain way, exercise to this is a massive thing, or starting your day with exercise gives me a sense of kind of completion for the day, you know, I've done what I need to do for myself, and the rest is a bonus.
Ruben: Looking back at your journey. What are some valuable insights or lessons you've learned about yourself and your mental health?
Will: A big insight that I've learned is that I'm a bit more fragile than the persona that I've tried to put on for most of my life as being invincible and falling into the stigma that men don't need help or they shouldn't need help. You know, I become okay with that. You know, if I need more rest, take more. So if I need more sleep, and I take more sleep, if whatever it might be, I think being a bit more accommodating to, to what I actually need versus what I think I should need. That's definitely something It's been big for me. Yeah, that emotional awakening or relearning all of my emotions later on a life crisis kind of thing relearning my emotions. That was a very valuable lesson. It enabled me to one feel that more because I knew what they were, but also helped me to manage them. Because I knew what they were for the same reason that I kind of lost the negative or negative emotions, not to say that they're not valuable to but I'd say it didn't become so overwhelming. I knew what they were, I could listen to them. And, you know, if it's something like fear, I could realize why I was feeling that. And maybe it was a fearful situation, and I needed to get out of there, or whatever it was, but that's probably been the most valuable lesson is really learning the bare basics of what emotions are and what they feel like.
Ruben: How are you doing now, and have you gained a better understanding of your triggers for suicidal thoughts?
Will: I'm fairly realistic with my own mental health journey and realize that going to see a psychologist once isn't going to fix me for the rest of my life. So you know, I'm okay with it being an ongoing journey. And there's obviously ups and downs that, that come with that, but overall, much better. And I say that mainly because now I know about it, I can do something about it. In the past, it was just so normalized that suicide ideation was there in the background, it was something that I thought about all the time. But now that I'm aware of how it impacts my life, and impacts relationships, and work and everything else that I do, all the better for knowing, I think there's probably a bit of a cycle that my friends have seen in, in my exercise regime, when I feel like things aren't going so well, I kind of ramped that up. And that becomes a bit more of a focus in my life. And then when things are good, I'm probably eating a bit too much. But even just smaller strategies, like spending time doing a bit more things that I've considered wholesome, like reading a book, and, and those kinds of things instead of spending time on technology, that really helps to ground me, I guess, and bring me more in touch with the way that I'm feeling and what I'm thinking, yeah, so definitely a lot better than I used to be.
Ruben: What would be your message of hope for someone listening, who was currently struggling?
Will: My message of hope would be that people around you really do care about you. I guess I have the perspective of being bereaved by suicide, as well as intense suicide ideation, or the experience of being bereaved by suicide, as well as having intense suicide ideation, myself. And the way that I've love and care for somebody who is having those thoughts is the same way that I know that they love and care for me. And if you are going through some difficulties or struggling, the people around you like your friends and your family, they want to help you, they're there to listen to you. And they really do love and care for you. You know, take that as encouragement to seek the support that you need. There's no shame, there's no embarrassment. I've only had positive experiences myself when I've opened up to friends and family. So reach out to somebody you trust and someone you love, and you'll be supported and loved by them.
Ruben: Thank you so much for joining us and holding on to pleasure. It's really good to hear your story.
Will: Thanks for that. Cheers.
Darcy: Thanks for listening to holding on to hope the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all holding on to hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously. In order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you don't have to struggle, visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au today.